Making Digital Technology Truly Accessible | The Journey of a Blind Expert, Maxime Varin
What we cover
Maxime Varin, a web accessibility specialist who has been blind since birth, shares his insider’s perspective on the digital world. He discusses the tools he uses every day—screen readers and Braille—the growing role of artificial intelligence, the shared responsibility between designers and developers, and the current state of regulations in Quebec and Canada.
Digital Braille Is Still Indispensable
Contrary to popular belief, Braille has not been replaced by text-to-speech technology. It remains essential for proofreading, revising, and capturing stylistic details that a voice cannot convey.
AI helps, but it doesn't replace good design
Artificial intelligence can work around certain inaccessible websites, but if the foundation—including the code, labels, and structure—is poorly designed, even AI won't be able to fill in the gaps.
Compliance with standards does not guarantee accessibility
A website that complies with SGQRI may still be difficult to use. Several essential best practices, such as structuring headings, are merely recommendations, not mandatory criteria.
Transcript
Karine
Hello everyone, Karine Simard, Director of the Inclusive Digital Studio at Ciao Technologies. Today, I present to you an interview that I did with Maxime Varin, web accessibility specialist and non-sighted person. Maxime was super generous with his time and with his experiences in the digital world. If you want to read the full article, visit the link to the blog that is in the notes of the video. Otherwise, I present to you different excerpts from the conversation that I had with Maxime Varin.
Karine
Hello Maxime, how are you?
Maxime
I am doing very well this morning.
Karine
Thank you Maxime, we had the opportunity to exchange on LinkedIn about digital accessibility and you accepted to lend yourself to an interview to share your lived experience in digital accessibility. Can you talk to us about the limitations that you have in the digital world currently?
Maxime
Yes well basically I am going to start by introducing myself. Me basically my name is Maxime Varin. I am a person in a situation of total blindness. Basically it was caused by a genetic disease. Basically it is aniridia. Basically it is I do not have an iris in the eye and it is from birth. So me, I have no vision past at all.
It still has a lot of repercussions because you know a person who already has a past of vision can use that to navigate in the digital world and evolve in life in general. But in my case, well that is it at that level it implies that since I do not have a past of vision, everything that is colors and all that, I do not have those notions. I know them, I understand them, they are theoretical notions, but that does not become real in a lived domain.
Uh in the digital world more specifically. It is a domain that is relatively new, we will not hide it. I was born during the 90s, you know from 90 to 2008 we did not even talk about that subject in my schooling, it is not even a theme that was addressed, it is something that was not even considered. Starting in the years 2008 it began slowly to become democratized, all that, people began to talk about it. But you know I would say it is still a subject that is rather vague in people’s minds.
You know I often have the perception of people who tell me accessibility often serves for disabled people and all that. But I still try to bring the fact that it serves everyone in some way, but it is still an idea that is very rooted, so I do a lot of awareness work to try to demystify that subject a little bit. That is it, there is still a big perception among people regarding all that. They are new emerging technologies. It helps a lot to democratize and explain many accessibility principles. The WCAG standards have surely helped in that also. We already have SGQRI that also came out.
Karine
In the following excerpt, Maxime explained to us his use of Braille in the digital context. It is a technology that continues to be super important for non-sighted people. I had not quite realized the importance of Braille for writing in the digital world.
Maxime
Me basically to explain also a little bit, I function with a computer, I have a screen reader that is JAWS but I also use a Braille display. The combination of both is really important in my case. I know people who function very well with speech synthesis only. Uh me Braille helps me a lot especially you know to revise texts because I write many texts in the context of accessibility. I write many articles and all that. I do many accessibility audits, validations. It helps me a lot to reread myself especially for details like having a comma, a question mark, dashes, really textual stylistic things that speech synthesis does not always give you.
Which makes that this is why you know in principle sometimes people will say voice assistants like Alexa and all, speech syntheses are good. Well Braille has more or less no reason to exist. All that to say that Braille is still very alive and still has as much place as it had before. It is simply a new way of using it. They have evolved a lot because it makes that we use it differently. Navigating on the web in Braille is in a very different way also than on Braille paper but it still has just as much usefulness, just as relevant as it was.
Karine
After that, we are going to discuss the topic of the moment, artificial intelligence, and how Maxime uses that technology in his digital daily life. Surely also intelligence will contribute to improving even more those aspects that we had at the level of computing technologies, but now with artificial intelligence it multiplies the possibilities also. So have you had the opportunity to experiment with artificial intelligence and to see the potential advantages to assist you?
Maxime
Well me honestly, I would say that it is really the stage where it is like a new toy for me there. I discovered that very recently. I continue to experiment with it, all that, and to see the possibilities. You know it is sure that voice assistants like I was saying, that is something that really helps a lot at the level of text revision. Everything that artificial intelligence can do in terms of revision, provide subtitling, summarize texts, produce reports, all that if it is done in a well structured way, we can produce reports also on that side.
What helps me a lot also is that when I ask a question to artificial intelligence often the result is provided in text. Which makes that if for example I ask it a question on a subject, well the intelligence will go on several sites to find me the information, but it will give me the result in a really textual form. Which makes that I do not have— you know if for example the basic site on which the intelligence searched is not accessible— I still have the information in a way much more manageable for me there. It is really something that is handled much better on that side and that is a big advantage that I saw in it there because it avoids for me sometimes going to investigate on sites that finally are not accessible. So that is it, for the moment it is something that I am still discovering very much.
Karine
In the next excerpt, we are going to listen to Maxime share his opinion which is super interesting at the level of responsibility in accessibility. Is responsibility entirely on developers, users, other people around the accessibility table? I invite you to listen to what Maxime thinks on that subject.
Maxime
I consider that for me the computer, it is really a window onto the world, but for that window there to really be open and not broken, websites still need to be designed in an accessible way and there is still a responsibility at the level of companies, at the level of those aspects there.
Me basically, I really consider that it is a shared responsibility. Me, I really have the responsibility at the level of my tools to use them as best as possible. But it is like anything. Even for artificial intelligence, it is a bit the same principle. If we consider that tools will help us, will provide us a lot of complementary information, it is true, but it will not be able to function well if websites despite everything are not designed in an accessible way.
A label on a field, if it is not applied in an accessible way, even artificial intelligence will perhaps not be able to detect it and correctly provide the information. It is a bit the same principle as what screen readers provide currently. Well that is it, it still rests on a fundamental base which is design, it is still very important always on that side.
Uh I still work a lot with everything that is UX teams, writing teams, developer teams. It is an aspect that is still difficult to reconcile also from the fact that me currently I am in the process of adapting many softwares, many platforms to try to make them accessible or even many individualized components. Often, we have component banks that arrive, but the problem is that often I arrive a little downstream in the process, which makes that well, it is trying to convince people also to integrate accessibility as early as possible because often it arrives much later. Uh and then it is sure that we have the arguments, people will say “Ah well now it is costly, ah well now it is difficult.” It is at that moment, it is sure that I tell them well of course, of course it is more costly, it is more difficult when it is done afterward.
Karine
How do you perceive the situation of accessibility in Quebec, we have the standards SGQRI 008. How do you perceive accessibility in Quebec at this moment? And do accessibility standards really allow people with limitations to fully participate in digital life?
Maxime
For me, the way I see it is that it is moving forward, there is a lot of progress being made but on the other hand there is still a lot of work to do. There is still a lot of the perception of people who will say our site or our platform, compared to other platforms, to what percentage is it accessible. Me, it is sure that it is not something that quantifies itself in percentage because it is very qualitative.
Besides, I know there are platforms that I use on a daily basis that change frequently. Which makes that in this context, you know, an accessibility that is real one day, the next day it can be partially or no longer accessible at all. It has happened to me. Contexts of regression basically because the platform becomes less accessible. Very often that happens frequently. For example I think of LinkedIn where recently they seem to have changed a lot of the code that is behind it and I have had many problems navigating recently and I reported it regarding that.
But you know that is it, quantifying in percentage is still very difficult. I think they put back the old way they had of functioning, in any case it helped me a lot on that side. But that is it, you know, still many platforms. And you know what I also noticed is that large companies, for example, that send us notifications saying okay we are going to change our privacy policies or our terms of use. At the level of accessibility it is not something that is done. They will not tell us well we changed things on our platform, it could happen that you encounter accessibility problems. It is something that we do not receive.
And that well me I tell myself at least it would help us if they informed us so that we could prepare ourselves a little in advance and try to find workaround solutions. It is sure that people tell me “OK, now you should kind of file a complaint in quotation marks or you know make yourself heard and all that,” but you know either the complaint form is not accessible—that is something that I encounter frequently—or it is not clear.
But there is also the aspect of whether me really I am going to go complain, put my head on the block, knowing that I do not want to be the only one complaining. You know, maybe people will make a blockade by saying okay him yes his complaints. You have a bit that perception of “well we do many things for disabled people, they are still not satisfied.” You know it is always a bit delicate this whole situation of perception once again of people regarding all that.
It is something that is moving quickly but there is still a lot of awareness work to do. On the standards side, regulation side, SGQRI side, WCAG side, you know there is also a lot of that perception because especially for people who have a little less knowledge in accessibility, who are not too familiar with the concept, well often they will tell me well I respected the rules, I respected the SGQRI rules therefore my site is accessible.
Often I arrive and I say well no, such thing is missing, and people say “but then why I do not understand, yet I respected what was required.” All that, but what must be understood is that accessibility you know, me in those rules there I observe that there are still many good practices that should be integrated as conformities.
Besides I was very surprised to observe in my work that for example the main regions or for example the fact of naming the regions in a page or for example the fact of putting a heading 1 at the top of a page or putting a heading structure from 2 to 6, structuring headings in a certain way, well that is considered a good practice, but you know in the standard there is really nothing that obliges that. It is more like a very strong recommendation but it remains a recommendation.
So for people it is a little easier for them to say we do it, we want to do it well, but it is very easy for people who would not want to do it. Not because it is bad will, but sometimes it is because they do not think about it or at that moment it is a little easier to set that side aside because it is not something specifically asked for in the design criteria.
Karine
Finally, I asked Maxime what sighted people did not understand about his situation and I found his answer really enlightening. I admit that I had not realized that aspect in the world of screen readers.
Maxime
I would say that what is very poorly understood and it is something that is very difficult to explain, but again it is the perception of some and others. It is that there is really a barrier between the person in a situation of disability and the people who are—I do not like to say that—in “without disability,” if we can say it like that. Because we can all encounter a situation of disability in our life one day or another, but for lack of a better term let us say we will go with that.
But let us say that the barrier is situated at the level of the fact of how a disabled person perceives the digital world or the world in general versus, you know, for example I was talking a little about formatting earlier, that was an example. The other example is that, you know, for example me navigating with the screen reader, well you know it is information that is very temporary and fleeting.
Temporary because well I have only one line of text at a time and because once I have moved to the next line of text, the line above I no longer have it. So what we can say of a totality is the overall view. Me of the document I do not have that. Often that is what people forget often: “but yes, but there three lines higher in the text.” Okay. Yes, but me I do not see it three lines higher, you know. Me I am really on one particular line. I have a somewhat narrow vision of the thing but you know on the digital side well that is it often, you know, to navigate it asks much more manipulation from me to succeed in doing only one thing.
Karine
Finally in this last excerpt Maxime demonstrates to us his resilience and his determination in the face of digital accessibility. I admit that I found it very inspiring to listen to him.
Maxime
So it is really a world to be explored. Me I always say that accessibility is an object and a subject to conquer more than a challenge to overcome there. You know if we see it as a challenge, me I often say that obstacles, it is ourselves who often create them. By telling ourselves OK we will not be able to do it, will go elsewhere or all that. Often the obstacles we create them a little ourselves.
There you go, it is sure that if we begin with a state of mind that we cannot do something, we begin with “I cannot,” begin with “how can I,” well we will not arrive at the same result there, that is certain.
Karine
Perfect. Well Maxime, I thank you infinitely for the time that you spent with us today. It is really interesting to understand the reality of someone who is in a situation there of total blindness as you mentioned. I thank you infinitely and looking forward to continuing to exchange.
Maxime
Well it is my pleasure.
Karine
And there you go those were the excerpts that I had to present to you from the interview that I did with Maxime Varin, web accessibility specialist. I would like to thank him for his generosity in time and his sharing in all authenticity. It was really great to spend that moment of exchange with him. You can read the complete interview in the blog of Ciao Technologies. The link is in the notes of the video. If you have a digital accessibility project, talk to us about it. At Ciao Technologies we have been accompanying organizations in digital accessibility for nearly 15 years. Bye bye everyone.
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